Originally by: CCP Manifest

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Hey, I'll be tossing out some answers here as best I can as well, so forgive me for a second as there's a LOT of posts to digest in this particular thread and I'd like to get to as many as possible. I have been, along with MANY others at CCP, reading forums, Twitter, Facebook, blogposts, petitions, etc for some time now, so it's not like much of it will be a surprise, but still each person here deserves eyes on their post so here we go.

I also must emphasize that, as Pann said, we'll have a more "substantive" answer for you tomorrow "from CCP" on many of the things you guys are talking/questioning/legitimately complaining about... so I wanted to make that clear.

There have been a lot of meetings and, as I am sure you can all undertand, these aren't quite the easiest things to unravel, reravel etc.

Silence sucks, it's been too long.

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Originally by: Mechanoid Kryten

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Edited by: Mechanoid Kryten on 24/06/2011 01:24:48
Edited by: Mechanoid Kryten on 24/06/2011 01:24:16
Edited by: Mechanoid Kryten on 24/06/2011 01:21:46

Bring back the Cruel, Merciless, cookie-taking-away Sandbox. Eve is the game that takes your cookie away from you, NOT the game that sells cookies for RL currency.

I didn't want to whine on forums about it, so i wrote a song

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Originally by: CCP Manifest

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Originally by: AdmiralJohn

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Edited by: AdmiralJohn

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Do you have any definitive idea of the future of Aurum?

Aurum is here to stay. The cycle here isn't changing soon.

However, I feel like none of the concerns of the community have been addressed. Worse, I feel like these concerns are being swept under the rug, and even treated with outright contempt.

That was not on purpose and I sincerely apologize for that. We've asked you guys to digest a lot of very quick changes and did a suboptimal job at walking beside you during the past month. Dev blogs and test servers and AT interviews and such didn't quite cut it for everything. There is NO contempt against our players.I've witnessed some extreme amounts of exhibited patience for the nastiest of the nasties who have threatened lives, engaged in character assassination and such--and that's because we as developers realize there are a lot of hurt/angry people out there.

Features that many players want are ignored, while decisions that are questionable at best are made without regard to the concerns of the community.
I won't make excuses for those features we know are much wanted or the ones people want us to go back and "fix". Heck, I want some of them. Soundwave and Eyjo and Dropbear and TonyG and Fallout want them too. BUT, making and designing and creating a game isn't pick and choose, especially when it comes to introducing something like Incarna or devoting significant dev time to rewriting old code backbone so we can grow again in the future. We know the other stuff is wanted. We know Incarna is also wanted and are working towards what many of you have wanted out of it. It just takes time.

I don't think that it's too late to save this special little den of internet spaceships and internet spaceship captains; however, this trend cannot go on forever and it has all the signs of fail cascade written all over it.
Word.

CCP, your players really do care about you and about your game. It would just be nice if the feelings were returned.
I could profess my love for each of you and really really mean it. Yes even you back there! But we all know its going to be more about showing you and not just saying it.

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Originally by: CCP Manifest

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Originally by: Majuan Shuo

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Edited by: Majuan Shuo on 24/06/2011 01:18:12

Originally by: CCP Pann

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Hi, everyone

As I see it, the chief complaint is regarding the high cost of goods in the Nobel Market.

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Then you are blind, go get us someone else.

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You have to admit that some people are vexed about the high cost of the monocle... but not because they would buy one at 3/4 the cost.

I think Pann might have mistyped (as she did with Nobel/Noble) and put that instead of NeX/Microtransaction. That's the chief concern atm, and of course there are the other more immediate ones and of course the longer tail concerns that many of you have mentioned here.

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Originally by: CCP Manifest

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Originally by: AkJon Ferguson

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Has soundwave been fired yet?

Will all future editions of 'Fearless' be released publicly?

Is there anything else you've lied to the playerbase about (MT for vanity ONLY) that we might like to know about?

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Soundwave will NOT be fired nor should he. I personally would not like to see one of the driving forces behind the Alliance Tournament and the spiritual leader of Team BFF take a fall for agreeing to present one opposing side of the microtransaction debate in an internal newsletter.

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Originally by: CCP Manifest

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Originally by: Evelgrivion

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Edited by: Evelgrivion on 24/06/2011 00:36:49
Here's my big question that I demand an answer to.

Are you going to **** the EVE Online sandbox over for Monetary Transactions or not? If not, all is forgiven. If MTs are going to impact the sandbox, start printing your resumes and god help you all.

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The designs we will implement in game will not **** over the sandbox.

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Originally by: WhiskeyGirl

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nullMy God... The main issue the the prices?!! No THE MAIN ISSUE IS CQ!!!

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Originally by: XIRUSPHERE

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Originally by: CCP Fallout

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It's always better to be constructive, and not destructive.

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Can you send this as an internal memo to all CCP staff?

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Originally by: QwaarJet

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60 pages and you guys still don't get it.

We aren't complaining about how you have communicated the changes to us, we are complaining about the changes themselves. Incarna is a waste of time that you guys should be ashamed of creating. It offers nothing to the player base, and gives us a scary reminder of where CCP's ego is taking this game. The future of EVE is bleak, unless you guys get your fingers out and do something. Forget Incarna and Dust. No one cares about them. You need to put your focus on the core of EVE and try to fix the game.

Ignore the player base at your peril, they are more important than you to this game.

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Originally by: Jerry Pepridge

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Originally by: Raikov Vanskenski

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This thread now has over 127,000 views. I think that this alone speaks volumes.

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100 Butthurt nerds with old computers, 4-5 trolls, 1 eve employee pressing F5.

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Originally by: Evanga

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i dont care about aurum, as long as people are not able to buy SP. That's is MY main concern. Rest i do not care.

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Originally by: FlameGlow

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I don't really care about PLEX or aurum or that shop, what I care about is that my only choices when I dock are:
1) getting PC nearly overheated (and it's only half year old ffs, not ancient rig)
2) Stare at stupid static door picture

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Originally by: Arya Greywolf

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Originally by: Aganola

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THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS THIS

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Originally by: Halcyon Ingenium

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Quote:

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non-Vanity items for AUR ...

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= an instant unsub.

And being forced to use CQ while having the hangar view taken away is seriously trying my patience.

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Originally by: Arya Greywolf

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Edited by: Arya Greywolf on 24/06/2011 14:43:59

Originally by: Bunnyy Lebowski

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I have included an image of a very quick paint storyboard to help visualize
Make Everyone Happy



Take it or leave it, thats my idea on the topic.

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This needs to be kept alive. CCP, It's a great idea and will keep your CQ just fine - hell, I have NO idea why you guys didn't make it like this way from the start.

CCP, I think the majority of people want two things.

1) An answer to the internal document and a promise that you will NEVER have money for in-game advantage/progression.

2) The above image implemented in game. When we dock, we get our old hanger view with the *PERMANENT OPTION* to "disembark." THEN and ONLY THEN will CQ load. This button will be part of the station and/or on our panel UI.

CCP PLEASE ADDRESS THESE ISSUES AND FIX THEM. This is probably what 80% of us players are truly disgruntled about.

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Originally by: Da Gooch

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Are you moving beyond VANITY AUR items?

This is the only thing that needs an answer right now, everything else comes second to this vital question, simple as.

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Originally by: Kary Tamona

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I've lost my faith in CCP. It is gonna be hard to convince me you can be trusted. What can you do?

- Make WiS a permanently optional feature.
- CCP's CEO gives his word that only vanity items will be sold on the virtual shops, ever.
- CCP's CEO promises that at any one time at least half of the techs will work on improving eve's gameplay. This does not include WiS or virtual shops.

We, the one's playing Eve, are the ones footing the bill so it is only fair that at least half of the resources are devoted to the game we are paying for.

If you want to change our game, fine, let us know and we'll go to another place, but at least have the decency to tell us in the face. No more lying, no more deep throating us with half finished code meant for other projects. We pay to fly ships, not to beta test Dust's virtual shop or vampire clothing.

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Originally by: Miilla

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Wonder what the Dust and WoD teams are thinking right now.

WoD team especially must be concerned, I would be, unless their "external funding" will step up more.

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Originally by: Buzzmong

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CCP Shadow posted this only 12 months ago:



Link for those not logged in: http://hosted.corelicorp.net/micro.jpg

Oh dear CCP. Oh dear indeed. 12 months.

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Originally by: DG J

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I have 4 accounts. I am dangerously close to unsubscribing at least 2 of them and watching eve burn.
Reasons:
-Lack of good spaceships in space content in over a year
-CQ is burning out people's hardware
-I love station spinning (100% serious about this)
-CCP blatantly lied to me, first about MT, then about vanity items for MT, screw you CCP.
-the lagg (which actually is improving)
-CCP nerfing 0.0 anomalies for no legitimately good reason
-CCP nerfing all income (i think its to get people to buy more plex at this point)
-CCP's internal newsletter completely out of touch with reality, and plotting to manipulate the EvE community

The things that can get me to stay:
Refocus on the core of EvE
-tier 4 BS
-t3 frigs
-boost all income across eve so people can enjoy pvp more
-remove MT, or at least never go past clothes
-nerf supers
-An apology from CCP CEOs and lead directors and management
-fix the damn lagg

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Quote:

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Originally by: CCP Fallout

Originally by: Aineko MacxIt's working!



No, it's not. It's a waste of my time, which I could be spent gathering more feedback and talking with people making sure the player's perspective is being shared with people higher up the ladder, I'm wasting time with extremely childish antics that get no one anywhere.

Really, this needs to stop.

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Originally by: The Mittani

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Originally by: Bomberlocks

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Sup, Mittens. That mook, Soundwave as well as the other opposing view, Diagoras, were obviously just used as faces by marketing to make what was already an executive decision look like a discussion for the more challenged within CCP. The MT, pay to win, decision was obviously made, long ago. If not they would have said so in one of the devbogrolls this morning at the latest, not when the sh!tstorm was hitting close to 200 posts.

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No, they're just utterly awful at messaging, quite possibly one of the worst of any MMO company. If they had gold ammo plans, I would have sussed it out already; it's not like I lack sources or skill in gathering intel.

In many of your posts over the past few months I've noted a conspiratorial bent in your views, and I think the above is a reflection of that.

CCP is never good at responding to threadnaughts with clarity and sense. Ban a couple of popular people, make things worse, rile up players - this is all par for the course, a mirror of T20 response.

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Originally by: Miilla

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Originally by: Sekhmet Neteret

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Please read the chief complaints before mentioning them in a post, it is not the price of clothing that is the real problem, it is the chance that SP and Standings may be sold, as well as other "useful" items.

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I think we have gone past that stage of our chief complaints.

The issue now is CCP's disregard and arrogance and attitude towards us.

You are wasting your breath with your "chief complaints".

We have got all the TRUTH we need now, the message was CLEAR.

If you cannot see it, read some of my YELLOW comments a few pages back (roughly around where the guy with the propellor hat is with daffey duck)

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Originally by: Manos Heimenbarger

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Edited by: Manos Heimenbarger on 25/06/2011 00:04:52
GM in Jita chat still doesn't get its a bad idea to disrespect your customers.



Apparently their customers are just random guys on the internet?

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Originally by: Desya Dak'ann

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I quote: "CCP struggles severely with internal and external communications."

Linkage

I'll just leave this here for the community to wreck you. kkthxbai

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Originally by: Miilla

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The reason why CCP are not ANSWERING your questions now, and responded the way they did, by ignoring the issue is...

THEY ARE STILL EXECUTING ON THEIR TIME TABLE... their time table does not have disclosure on these issues at this time.

That is how CLOSED CCP management is, they do it their way, nothing interrupts their schedule, that was committed to.

THE MT EXECUTION TIMETABLE IS STILL IN EFFECT.

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Originally by: Kellaen

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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Originally by: Ris Dnalor

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Originally by: Manos Heimenbarger

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Edited by: Manos Heimenbarger on 25/06/2011 00:04:52
GM in Jita chat still doesn't get its a bad idea to disrespect your customers.



Apparently their customers are just random guys on the internet?

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wow. what is going on at CCP? Can you imagine walking into any other business... as a customer.. and be treated this way? really? WTF.

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If you walked into a company, told them their entire pricing structure needed to be redone immediately or you would cause a scene by blocking access to their store... yes, I can imagine it quite easily.

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Originally by: RisDnalor

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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then you don't live in the real world.

It would be handled with a modicum of tact, especially if the interaction occurred in front of other customers, which this one did. We pay their salaries. Wether they like it or not. I predict layoffs in CCP's future.

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LOL. You'd be arrested and thrown out the first time you refused the polite request to leave.

I predict you have much to learn about how the world works.

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Originally by: Miilla

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Originally by: Neo160

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Originally by: Wakeland

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After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store.

After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store.

After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store.

After 40 hours we have already sold 52 monocles, generating more revenue than any of the other items in the store.

Literally nothing else needs to be said. We are wallets to CCP.

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that equates to about $4000.

seriously CCP, was this really worth the PR nightmare you have created? $4000 is chump change pennies to you guys, and you seriously think this was worth it?

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It is exactly this.....

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Originally by: Kell Hunter

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anyone else notice? Pann offers a olive branch, and zulu beats us over the head with it? kinda amusing.

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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Quote:

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as far as your internal pdf goes....whatever. you should be fearful, of your playerbase for reasons i mentioned earlier. although bouncing ideas around isn't a bad thing. your players should be in the loop to a certain extent.

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/facepalm

Has no one here watched Wall Street? Gordon Gekko? Any of that ring a bell?

The PDF's title is Greed is Good?, directly referring to the Wall Street character Gordon Gekko (and the person that character was based on) who is famous for that line. It's a morality story about that person, who went to jail for decades for ripping off his clients out of, you guessed it, overwhelming greed.

Does the fact that the people were asked to portray different extreme viewpoints in that internal communication now make sense?

Do you get the point of the whole exercise now?

Holy Christ you people are dense.

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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Edited by: Ranger 1 on 25/06/2011 11:02:22

Originally by: Futile Rhetoric

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Originally by: Ranger 1

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Okay.

Greed is Good is the catch phrase of Gordon Gekko (or rather the person he is based on) in Wall Street. That person personified greedy business practices and ripping off the customer, and ended up spending the rest of his life in prison for it.

People were asked to portray these points of view in that newsletter to air those very issues.

In essence, the damn thing is a corporate morality play, which puts things in a completely different context than it was originally presented to the EVE community via the "leak".

If you don't agree with that point of view, fine, but at least understand it.

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Everybody understands the argument you goddam eejit. I guess you just need an above room temperature IQ to see how vacuous it is. It is clear from the general thrust of the newsletter which side of the argument won, it has been confirmed by the NEX store, re-confirmed by the dev blog, and clinched by the leaked email.

NO BUT YOU GUYS YOU GUYS SERIOUSLY THEY DIDN'T MEAN IT YOU'RE ALL SO STOOPID.

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1: It's obvious most posting their opinion DON'T get the reference.
2: With this in mind, what you suggest is NOT the obvious conclusion.
3: I see high prices in the NEX store yes, but I see no non-vanity items there (which is rather the central issue).
4: There was NO confirmation in the DEV blog that non-vanity items would be sold in the future.
5: The only thing the leaked email confirms is that they want to see what people do (not say) before they modify their course of action in pricing.

High prices in the NEX store are not the main issue, far from it.

The issues is simply that people thought the newsletter discussion was a proposal to include non-vanity items in the NEX, which with the information we have now it clearly WASN'T. Because of this they thought CCP lied to them, which they DIDN'T.

I'm not going to bother with this any more.

You'll get confirmation of this all soon enough. And yes, I will be pointing and laughing.

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Originally by: CCP Manifest

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I find it immensely important, having read as much of this thread as humanly possible while still in an email/meeting/phonecall flurry yesterday, to let you guys know that Pann didn't abandon this thread on purpose. She had a family emergency in what is possibly the worst possible timing in the history of the internet, about 2 minutes after her second post in here. Everything is ok with that situation (talked to her yesterday). Whether you believe me or not, thems the facts. Saying that, obviously, on the day this thread began would have sounded ludicrous at best, spurious at least. Sort of like "my dog ate my homework" when your dog ACTUALLY ate it.

I haven't yet gotten to the blog responses, Facebook comments or reviewing Twitter hashtags. So please understand if I don't respond in a timely fashion in any venue and understand too that many questions simply cannot be answered directly. The nature of the beast.

The community team, likewise, has had their hands full with (as leniently as possible) enforcing forum rules and relaying information. We're all in it for the long haul though.

If some of my responses that I end up making do sound glib, I can assure you it is not because I don't understand the gravity of the situation at hand or the trueness of emotion/logic behind player opinion. It's because, frankly, of who I am.

Furthermore, if only some stuff gets answers or some seemingly random threads get attention, its also the nature of that same beast. Thanks for listening.

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Originally by: Auram Caprinae

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if they knew they were going to make a video, do transcripts, do translations and that this was all going to take time then CCP should have said so when they announced the CSM summit, basic customer management says that managing expectations is key, let alone during a major client drama such as now, so tell us when to expect the information, and if there are still details to be worked out then be upfront and say that

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